Ep119: Sex and Enlightenment - Shinzen Young, Chelsey Fasano, Dr Jay Sanguinetti
In this episode we consider the effect of meditation practice and classical enlightenment on sexuality, as we continue the ongoing conversation between Shinzen Young, Chelsey Fasano, and Dr Jay Sanguinetti.
In this episode we consider the effect of meditation practice and classical enlightenment on sexuality, as we continue the ongoing conversation between:
Shinzen Young, meditation teacher and neuroscience research consultant
Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience student
Dr Jay Sanguinetti, Assistant Director for the Center for Consciousness Studies and Research Professor at the University of New Mexico
We recall Leigh Brasington’s statements in episode 115 that many of his students experience states of meditative absorption as erotic in nature, and we consider Chelsey’s observation that Leigh’s brain scans in these absorption states resemble images of the brain during orgasm.
I contrast early Buddhist scriptural statements which state that it is impossible for enlightened people to have sexual intercourse with later, highly sexual accounts of enlightened masters such as ‘The Saint of 5000 Women’, Drukpa Kunley, and Rinzai saint and erotic poet Ikkyū Sōjun, and pose the question, ‘What does the data say?’.
In the face of this apparent disagreement within the wisdom traditions about the effect of realisation on sexuality, what trends have the panel observed in the sexuality of their meditation students, and in their ultra-sound subjects, and what might that tell us about the real world consequences of deep meditation practice and/or brain stimulation aimed at classical enlightenment.
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Topics include:
00:00 – Intro
01:29 – Jhana and orgasm
04:31 – Buddha vs Durkpa Kunley
11:07 – Shinzen on the sutras
15:12 – Who was Drukpa Kunley?
17:13 – Ikkyu and Zen
18:52 – Are arhats impotent?
22:37 – Jay on relationship to drives
24:33 – Screwing up on the job
26:43 – Different practices, different results?
31:12 – Being enlightened vs acting enlightened
36:07 – The single most important factor
39:22 – What is integration?
44:47 – Ethical guidelines vs commandments
50:53 – What does the data say?
56:33 – Neuroscience interventions in sexuality
01:01:58 – A logical conundrum
01:03:08 – Shinzen’s experience from the field
01:06:23 – Can any human being be free of sin?
01:08:13 – Benchmarks vs complete liberation as an end point
01:10:58 – What does it mean to be a certified a teacher
01:13:36 – Jay analyses the logic
01:16:25 – Chelsey’s dimensional analysis
01:18:53 – A job for applied category theory
01:24:00 – Shinzen’s advice to mathematicians and category theorists
01:26:30 – Aversion and the system
01:28:39 – Compassion cascading
01:32:57 – Complex systems
Previous episodes in this series:
To find out more about Shinzen, visit:
To find out more about Chelsey, visit:
To find our more about Dr Sanguinetti, visit:
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James