Ep131: Art & Spirituality - Rupert Spira & Henry Shukman
A dialogue between Rupert Spira, a teacher of the direct path method of Advaita and an internationally acclaimed ceramic artist; and Henry Shukman, Zen teacher and award winning poet and writer.
Available on Youtube, iTunes, SoundCloud & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
Well known as influential spiritual teachers, both men have also had prestigious careers in the arts, and in this episode they discuss the intersection of art and spirituality.
Rupert and Henry consider such issues as the true purpose of art, narrative as a healing device, art as interruption of the subject object distinction, the darshan of Rembrandt, and how Chekov relates to the Vedantic witness.
Rupert and Henry also reflect on their own artistic careers, including the importance of mentors, finding one’s unique voice, and the relationship between discipline and spontaneity.
Topics include:
00:00 - Intro
00:56 - Art and awakening
02:34 - Rupert Spira as a ceramic artist
03:03 - Henry Shukman as a poet and author
03:40 - Differences between Spira and Shukman
06:09 - The purpose of art
11:06 - What Henry discovered in poetry
19:07 - Intimacy and collapsing the subject-object distinction through art
25:40 - Tang Dynasty poetry and interrupting linearity
27:37 - Imagination vs conceptualisation
30:57 - Using concepts to point to the pre-conceptual
33:36 - Art as interruption and portal
35:53 - Narrative as a healing device
36:33 - The disinterested affection of great art
42:44 - Rembrandt’s darshan
44:24 - Irony and sympathy of the vedantic witness
47:00 - The most real and essential thing in life
50:14 - The power of apprenticeship in Rupert’s life
55:00 - Liberation from the teacher and finding your own voice
58:37 - Henry’s poetry apprenticeship
01:00:58 - Discipline and spontaneity
01:02:38 - Finding a teacher
01:05:20 - The death of Zen
01:07:20 - The real lineage
01:14:55 - The artistic process
01:17:26 - What makes effective art and an effective artist?
01:18:14 - The master’s eye view
To find out more about Rupert Spira, visit:
To find out more about Henry Shukman, visit:
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James